Doubling down on her response, Nicola even retweeted a … Once again, and I can’t stess this enough, it’s okay to like the show and like the characters. There are some things that people can readily believe and accept... and for BIPOCs, there are structural and societal limits to what those things are. Now either way I think she is an amazing character and I love watching her, but I think she should get some soft moments as well like Eloise does. Renewed for Season 2! They don’t change over time or get explored in a light that doesn’t fall into the “strong Black woman” trope. Much like the minstrel characters of black women you see in the late 19th / early 20th centuries. What was the breaking point of her trying to induce an abortion? Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. and you feel they're just token characters? No, I am saying it is not mutually exclusive to want and have diversity and still keep the storylines. As someone earlier in the thread brilliantly stated, you don’t even see these women sharing a kiss with anyone. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. No. The queen gets glimpses of character development throughout the season but she doesn’t go through much transformation in the end (hopefully we see it in season 2). To only cast WOC (I hope that is the right abbreviation) characters for parts with a „good“ storylines would pretty much end the idea of colorblind casting. I can understand your point about the demographic implications of having an all black cast but movies/productions like Black Panther and Hamilton prove that it can be done well and still be successful. We're not asking for these characters to be pure and perfect, we're asking them not to continue damaging stereotypes and using poc characters as tools. She essentially has no arc. Each book in this eight book historical romance series features a member of the Bridgerton family. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. Many feel so very progressive that they even watched the show, and that they accepted the racial diversity without judgment (big pat on our backs!). I only ask that you hear me out and read to the end before you comment cause this is gonna be long: DISCLAIMER: I should start by saying that I think having BIPOC people featured in the show was GREAT and I LOVED pretty much all of the characters, but I couldn’t deny that there was definitely some tokenism going on in here: Now I can only speak for myself, but me and my friends (all Black women) discussed this show, and we all agreed that it was nice to see Black women taking center roles at first, but after a while we picked up on some very “tokenist” vibes. In the beginning she is introduced as a foil to the featherington girls however she wants to be with George. Everyone's entitled to their opinion of what they want to see in the show, whether it's sticking to the books' story line or changing it up. I think that we can still like the show and the characters while recognizing that some stereotypes and social expectations are still being reinforced. But the reality is the series is not an exact replica of the books. I feel as tho they definitely dropped the ball with her character but hopefully she comes back next season for some kind of redemption. It's all about perception. It’s not until she’s forced to seduce Colin that she actually makes progression towards anything. And also the diversity in this show so far has been just black women and men (important characters), no other ethnicities. I just binged the show after a failed first attempt at watching, bc a podcast I respect mentioned a significant plot twist at the end. It was a quiet week on the TV Awards front, with the calendar largely going dark after the March 24 Producers Guild of America Awards, where many of … Once that fails and George is revealed to be dead, she’s ultimately left nowhere as a character. Would his role have generated such discussion? I guess that's why these discussions are happening. This show is based on the Bridgerton book series by Julia Quinn. Token doesn’t mean not being different. She remains in her trauma the entire show without deliverance or meaningful enlightenment after all she’s gone through. We don’t see their pasts or their range of emotions. Amen to this! Would they have children (who are alive and are seen on camera). Even when she is “undesirable“ it is only because of her brother’s interference, nothing of her own doing. I’m not wishing they were more powerful, I’m wishing they were more human. The show is always gonna be about a Bridgerton-sibling as the main character, and there are 8 of them, and asking for the supporting women characters to be black and all have big storylines is maybe a bit too much. I wouldn’t have bothered with the Queen if they hadn’t mentioned George’s dementia. Same with Lady Danbury. Just wanna express how incredibly excited I am to see an ASIAN as a MAIN character. Just the fact that we’re willing to watch season 2 means that we like the content yet still are looking for improvements. For me, it sucks to see an Asian woman as a meek sidekick or crazy dragon lady in a show that isn’t just entirely Asian or about Asian culture. That shows more self-awareness than the silly “nuh-uh, look at alllll the black people what are you talking about?” responses. The whole second episode is her being soft with baby Simon. And if you had Simon be played by a white actor then people would be complaining because how come the black woman is marrying a white man. Regardless, I feel it necessary to reaffirm that my post isn’t a complaint, it’s an analysis and essentially it seems like you’re just telling me to “be grateful Black people are in this at all”. I just don’t feel like handing out A’s for effort no matter how much I like the show. They could’ve done that one after party scene with her being drunk instead of Violet and Simon helping care for her to show some more love in their relationship. Discussion. And that’s fine. So you're saying wanting diversity and representation is totally fine except when it's not in line with your ships and the book stories you like? How does she feel about being locked away for so long and losing her relationship to Colin? However when she feels like he doesn’t want her anymore she just kind of sulks. This doesn’t happen with the Black women. Reddit LinkedIn WhatsApp Email ... as the society’s diversity is explained by a storyline within the show. I’m Chinese-American, and there’s always mixed emotions when you see representation in media because yes, you’re glad to see people of your background represented, but it’s also disappointing when it reinforces existing stereotypes. I think we’re making progress, but it’s important to recognize that there are still limits so we can work on moving them. Just as you were explaining it, it became clear that Marina’s story and her trauma just became a gateway for Daphne to both find resolution and still be the “white savior”. Lady Danbury acts as a Mr. Miyagi if you will but with no other description besides “she always says what’s on her mind to your face” because of course she does, that’s how older Black women are always portrayed. They’re all right where they started. Thank you, I am not American, and I find it unfair the discussions always end up around the race and not the storyline or journey of the character while the show is obviously trying to be more diverse and inclusive. There is a difference in how this show handles black people and how shows like Hamilton does it (I can recognize this may be apples and oranges but this is just to explain that Bridgerton is not the first to have done this). She refuses to get married however she can’t take care of herself on her own. Renewed for Season 2! What I am doing is trying to analyze this story as someone would analyze Shakespeare, Dickens or Wilde. In essence (no pun intended), making the entire cast black is not really the point because it isn’t about “color”. They go about this through courtship and marriage (and by attending many balls). What you’re saying about Asian representation is also absolutely true. Also, I think diversity seen through US p.o.v. This show is based on the Bridgerton book series by Julia Quinn. I was expecting her to have her Cinderella moment but she basically stayed in the cellar the entire time. In the end, how much of an impact do these discussions have on what the writers will write anyway? Premiered Dec 25, 2020. I also do not believe for one second the show was aiming to show that a dark-skinned male should or could be villainized. Prior to … Thank you ! OP didn’t complain. Why can’t we have nice things? American poc viewers may see Marina as a stereotype black single mom, which may not be the case, for instance, for the britsh audience or the rest of the world, where single moms stereotypes are more about class, being poor, than race. Like why don’t we see her being occasionally soft like Violet Bridgerton? I think it would’ve been a lot harder for the general public to accept a darker skinned black man in those sex scenes with a dainty and super pale Daphne. They are minor characters. They have made changes, and even if we end up in the same place as the books it doesn't mean we are all going to agree. She is all of these things and more to the audience. We don’t see them overcome struggles or come to great enlightenments. I’m not backing OP bc I share their opinion, per se. Lady Danbury is also a lovable character but once again she’s giving very “I don’t need no man vibe”. Like for instance when I watch this show I do not recognize or see a problem with Marina or a poc being a single mother. Bridgerton, whose massive wave of popularity is showing no signs of subsiding, is now Netflix’s biggest series ever by a wide margin.It pushed down to … Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Tumblr Pinterest Reddit Skype WhatsApp Telegram Viber … Also, I want to point out that side character is not synonymous with token character. "Bridgerton" is the story of families clamoring for improved social standing in 1813 high-society London. Share. I don't find the queen just cold and unlikeable, she has her goals, she's bored, she's commanding since she's the queen, and we get to see her softer side, a bit of her personality when we find out about her husband, the king and him probably having dementia, her true feelings for him with them being friends who become husband and wife - they truly loved each other and then had a great loss - their daughter. I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Yes. This show is based on the Bridgerton book series by Julia Quinn. As I’ve said, I like the majority of these characters and believe they were both casted and acted well. One can simply say: “Hmm, I didn’t look at it that way. Ginny is a “side character” in Harry Potter but she’s not a token White girl. I mean, none of them even get a happy ending! I don’t really know how I could further explain this because it really runs so much deeper than just having more than one black female character. Tokenism in relation to black women relate to things that you see white women experiencing that black women don’t such as desirability or loving families. A stereotype in one country or culture doesn't mean that other countries have the same stereotype. I don't feel like black women have just been token characters. If you want to look at it as not being diverse.... You can do that but I don't think it's accurate perception. If including Black people in their cast was for us, then let us see us. They don’t fall in love or have any visible family members. What has been interesting in this post is seeing how blindly people expose themselves in terms of their social awareness. Nicola Coughlan claps back at haters who criticized the diverse, inclusive cast of ‘Bridgerton,’ via Twitter. She is introduced very strongly but after a while we notice that she is never explored outside of being the “shamed pregnant” woman. Just because someone is rich or have status doesn’t mean they aren’t still a stereotype or servant to the plot. They have made changes, and even if we end up in the same place as the books it doesn't mean we are all going to agree. And frankly I don’t think Shonda would want that either. Netflix’s two top film and TV executives said the streaming service still has plenty of room for progress with diversity, but predicted results in 2020 will likely show improvement over 2019 … I am a foreigner so while I am exposed to the dominant pop-culture since infancy and feel I can recognize the toxic perceptions that come with it, I may not always see through it as well as you do. I am alienating the story from the underlying context of the characters in an attempt to explore the racial implications of progressive pieces such as this. Now while you may think “who cares about being likable or attractive” just think of how Daphne the heroine is portrayed. But the point m I’m making is that it’s not just about taking a character and changing the color of their skin to be commended for diversity. Regé-Jean Page as Simon Basset and Phoebe Dynevor as Daphne Bridgerton in "Bridgerton" on Netflix. && for Simon's father to be a dark-skinned black man that was abusive, where Simon and his mother are both light-skinned, is colourist and damaging. But having the two major characters in the show be played by black actors would have changed the whole dynamic. 'Bridgerton' star Nicola Coughlan claps back at critics of the show's diversity The show, which debuted on December 25, is projected to be viewed by … Renewed for Season 2! There have been many criticisms over the historical inaccuracies of the costumes in “Bridgerton,” as well as questions over whether Britain in the 1800s was as diverse as the show’s casting. compare to indians born in India - they're the same race/colour but different cultures and experiences. In Bridgerton, you have 4 of the major households black (Simon's, Queen, Danbury, Will's). I know the diversity of the cast has been celebrated in this show, and rightfully so, but it should be stated that while it was good intentioned, it definitely still has its issues. It’s not just about representation, it’s about what these characters symbolize and if they communicate a bad message or are essentially just the “help” to white protagonists, then it’s not really progressive. Even Granville has layers to him that get explored in increments that are important to the plot, however minor they are at first. These are luxuries that essentially every woman, besides these Black women, enjoy (besides Will’s wife who has like four scenes). You’re definitely not the only one who feels this way. Either way, the point I’m making is not “more black characters”, the point I’m making is more “diverse/feminine black characters”. More posts from the BridgertonNetflix community. It’s the same stereotype you would see in any modern tv show no matter how much you like the character. In fact, that’s why I said “tokenism” in the beginning because there’s traces of it there without being outright in your face. Created by Chris Van Dusen. is different from seeing from, for instance, UK's p.o.v. (Queen and Danbury). I suppose they might not kill off marina and have George turn up, I understood that they first wrote the storyline and then cast „colorblind“ (more or less. Yes these are side characters and no I don’t expect them to take up the majority of plot, but when characters are given ample screen time, I expect them to have some semblance of a formative arc. Because the porn industry has infected media, that’s why. You have Marina, who is desirable, and not just strong but also shows heartbreak - first when she thinks that George doesn't want anything to do with her, then when she finds out that he died, she shows she wants love and the best for her child when she goes after Colin, moments of weakness when she tries to end her pregnancy, and later explains to Colin why she tried to trick him - she's not just a strong black woman, she's quite complex.